Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: Round Robin Date: Jan 3, 2009 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: How close was Bob to being replaced?

I read somewhere that David Nelson was nearly given his spot. What was it that Bob did to convince them to let him stay?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 3, 2009 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

I have not read a great deal about it in particular, and if others know more, chime in, but it appears to have been "classic Jerry" in that a decision was made by at least some members of the band (Jerry + Phil + ???; only one or the other? drummers?) in the fall of 68 (thus, the Hart/HeartBeat shows) and both Bob and PP were told, apparently, in September (post 20th?) and then we have shows in Oct in which neither play (Matrix), Bob plays (Avalon) and then both play again by the 20th. The little that has been said indicates they were told, but they kept showing up and no one held the line, PLUS we must assume that NO one was found to replace them.

That is your question, and I don't know: did they have auditions? Did they think about going on without them? Is TC in essence the person they tried out for PP's replacement, but kept both later that fall?

Anyone know if more details are revealed somewhere by someone?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: He Live's Date: Jan 3, 2009 8:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

Dark Star, p. 159

Rock Scully: Garcia said, "Bobby's not playing electric guitar and if i'm going to get any good at my instrument and play the way everybody wants me to play and the wai i want to play i need a solid electric rhythm behind me." Which was weird because what happened was that Garcia developed his style from having to comp a lot of rhythm. He became sort of a lead rhythm player, which i think made him so brilliant....

p. 160

Rock Scully: Garcia knew what he was doing. He was just scaring their asses. Rattling their cages. They took a couple weeks off. Weir went and got some electric guitar training....

there's lots more on this subject as well. i don't have time to quote it all now but the bottom line is -- bob was fired, but there never would have been a Grateful Dead any other way. with any other lineup. IT would have ceased to exist.


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 3, 2009 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

Got to agree with you, HL. The core members of the band were always Garcia, Lesh, Weir and Kreutzmann - take out anyone of them on a permanent basis and you might still have a decent band but what you definitely will not have is the Grateful Dead. I mean, can you imagine the Grateful Dead with Hart as the only drummer? No, neither can I. When Garcia departed he took the Grateful Dead with him, not simply because he was Garcia but because he was one of 'the four'. If Lesh, say, had died of liver failure, or whatever, that would just as effectively have brought the Grateful Dead to a close.

Oh yeah, and Happy New Year, HL!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: He Live's Date: Jan 3, 2009 7:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

hey rob from england!

you have the Dark Star book right? if not pick it up used somewhere.... it is a vaguely sequential collection of vaguely tied together quotes from all the key members of the organization -- it reads like a Dead Family Seminar transcript.

how are the bookstores where you are BTW? out here in California they are slowly passing away...

i am not a very big Reader or anything but it is shame when your only option for browsing in a bookstore is at a BIG BOX. do you call them big boxes in england? Barnes and Noble etc. "browsing" Amazon.com is not the same.

cheers!


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Jan 3, 2009 10:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

You left out this guy:

http://www.archive.org/details/deep_mitch_we_are_all_prostitutes

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Jan 3, 2009 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

Dennis McNally's book has a lot of info on this. I don't have it with me, perhaps someone else can quote. But apparently someone actually recorded the meeting where Phil & Jerry confronted Weir with his "holding them back"....it's very interesting, because they're all unable to talk directly about the situation at all, it's all just hint-hint, and they can't settle anything.
Which makes me think that their "firing" Weir & Pigpen was more an attitude thing than a direct dismissal - I think it wasn't "don't show up next show", but more like "you can't play right, we could do better without you". It was only a brief period of time (a week or two) anyway, and I think a couple things happened - one, the Hartbeats shows proved to Phil & Jerry that actually they couldn't do better without Weir & Pigpen, and two, Weir perhaps looked to the others like he was starting to put more effort in.
Constanten didn't show up til a month later, which was more a fluke than anything else (the way things usually happened with the Dead, just like Donna & Keith popping up). Since Pigpen was playing less, Phil probably thought this would be a great way to make the band spacier and put more intricacies in the jams. What ultimately happened though, was Constanten was never really able to push his way in with his rather baroque, ornamental style, so the others usually played like he wasn't there (Constanten has a good description of how he could barely hear himself & Jerry never left room for him).....but that's another story....

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 4, 2009 7:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

thanks, LiA & HeLives...yep, think that I have actually read those lines before that both of you provide and it just slipped away from the memory.

as pointed out, think it was more of a "scare the crap out of them" or if it happens easily, okay, or whatever, but no real hard line on "WTF? Why are YOU here today?" kindof confrontation, nor were a bunch of folks interviewed or what have you.

so, I suppose if they never really meant to get rid of them, then it wasn't classic Jerry, but I interpreted it in the spirit of Jerry would have followed thru, BUT couldn't since even if he really thought it was best, he was not the sort to 1) make such a monumental decision to begin with, nor 2) the sort to embrace a confrontational series of interactions to make it stick.

at least that is my view of the Jerry persona.

I agree that Bob adds something (as I always say, 10-12-68 is the best of all time, defn top ten for eternity, with Bob but NOT PP, whereas Matrix shows are interesting [no Bob, no PP], but not nearly as good as 10-12) but they could've made it at that point without PP.



This post was modified by William Tell on 2009-01-04 15:33:41

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 4, 2009 6:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 10-12-68 is only very good?

Are you saying the show that Arbuthnot is going to be listening to for eternity is only very good? He has stated on multiple occasions that he intends on having this one piped into his coffin in perpetuity.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 4, 2009 7:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 10-12-68 is only very good?

Must've been a typo...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 4, 2009 9:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 10-12-68 is only very good?

nice edit. lol!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: wonsing Date: Jan 3, 2009 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

Bobby was a tough dude back then. He most likely got Nelson is a sleeper hold and made him call Momma.

This post was modified by wonsing on 2009-01-03 15:08:26

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: rastamon Date: Jan 3, 2009 6:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How close was Bob to being replaced?

stay out de top one homie

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)